RiL Podcast #004: Is Cantonese a Creole?!

絮言.狂想 #004

The Cantonese podcast for fans of linguistics, language lovers, and Cantonese learners. This episode starts with the English and Japanese loanwords in Cantonese and talks about special features of word borrowing among Chinese-influenced languages, as well as calques and the Balkan Sprachbund.

Show notes and links available on the Cantonese page. Transcript below.

This podcast is also available on YouTube. Don’t forget to subscribe!

[intro]

以:係啊係啊係啊係啊。(苗:哦,OKOK)Wiki講㗎。Wiki講一定啱㗎。

苗:哦,原來係噉。

靳:呢個係咪intro嚟㗎,我想問。

以:係啊,呢個應該係intro啊。

苗:呢個係intro喇。

[jingle]

00:21

以:好啦,過咗一兩個禮拜啦,歡迎大家返到嚟聽新一集嘅〈絮言.狂想〉!我係以色列

苗:我係三苗

靳:我係……我係靳尼啊。

苗:你係邊個?

以:你係邊個?

苗:你係邊個?

靳:我係……我唔知啊,我係邊個……

苗:呢個係好……好深嘅哲學問題

靳:啱啊

以:噉我哋上集呢就講咗好多世界上唔同嘅語言啦,噉同埋我哋第一集呢都講咗,啊,譬如英文啊、法文啊,呢啲噉樣嘅語言互相嘅關係。噉呢,我哋由本土外望世界,由世界呢就帶返本土,我哋呢就想睇返我哋自己嘅語言啦,或者附近嘅漢語啊等等呢類型嘅語言呢,裡面嘅借詞呢一個現象。嗱,噉我哋廣東話呢個母語呢,就係一個非常非常之多元嘅語言嚟嘅。即係一嚟啦,我哋就好多譬如係的士、巴士嗰啲大家都知道嘅英文嘅借詞啦,但係同時間呢,現代嘅,尤其是香港人啦,即係我哋因為好鍾意跳出香港或者望向世界啦,所以就好鍾意夾雜咗英文啊等等唔同嘅外來嘅詞語喺我哋嘅廣東話裡面啦,噉但係呢就可能有少少爭拗喇。到底邊一啲詞語係我哋已經借咗入嚟廣東話裡面嘅一部分呢,定係有邊啲詞語係純粹我哋隨意噉樣夾雜咗啲外語喺裡面呢?

苗:呢樣嘢其實又好似有幾個方法去分辨嘅。有一呢就冇乜爭議,係大家都接受咗係廣東話嘅字啦,譬如……譬如你啱啱所講嗰啲的士啊、巴士啊、士多啊呢啲,已經有晒漢字啦,第一。第二呢,佢嘅發音係完全融入咗廣東話成個音韻嘅規則啦。噉呢,因為呢兩個原因呢,所以大家都覺得佢係……即係已經係融入咗廣東話嘅借詞啦。但係有一啲就比較新嘅詞,就可能呢,就未有漢字,或者直頭係同廣東話嘅音韻呢有少少唔對應。但係佢有時嘅意思啊或者文法上啊,已經融入咗嗰個廣東話嗰個語法。譬如如果我係download噉樣。噉呢一個我哋唔會用漢字呢嘅,通常係寫返……串返英文噉樣啦。但係呢,佢嗰個發音都已經係……即係融入咗廣東話噉樣啦。噉呢但係就有啲模稜兩可嘅情況,例如mix噉樣,譬如我將兩樣嘢mix埋噉樣。噉mix呢個ks嗰個音又屬唔屬於係廣東話嘅語音嘅一部份呢?噉有啲人拗就話唔係嘅,有啲人就話其實都可以分析做係㗎喎,噉呢個我就唔係好認識啦,噉所以我都唔深入噉講啦。噉但係呢有啲人就會拗喇,哦唔係喎,嗱,你中英夾雜之嘛,你邊係借詞呢?即係,佢哋覺得借詞就一定要係某一啲某一啲條件啦,有一個好大嘅因素就係佢係咪用漢字寫。通常……通常如果一個借詞係有漢字呢,就普遍母語者會接受佢係借詞多啲嘅。但係如果係download嗰個情況呢,即使佢嘅語音啊或者文法上可以完全融入廣東話嘅語法,譬如你話我download咗喇噉樣、download緊喇,或者直頭可以切咗一半㗎喎,話我down咗啊噉樣又得。(靳:我down咗佢。)係喇,噉正……噉down咗一定唔係……唔係中英夾雜啦嘛,你英文冇得話I downed噉樣?嘛。

以:down咗杯酒。

靳:I downed

苗:呢個係一個廣東話自己創新嘅一個特點嚟?嘛。噉喺呢一個字上面,佢就一定唔係中英夾雜囉。

以:係啊,尤其是呢,譬如喺大學嘅環境裡面啦,佢有好多啲英文字都係用慣咗,就會變咗做我哋嘅廣東話嘅音系啊噉嘅特色嘅。即係好似我哋有present啦、有呢個inaug(uration)啦,之後就grad(uate)咗啦,其實又係好難分辨到底佢算唔算仲係英文嘅一部份呢,定係其實已經係我哋內化咗呢?因為呢個問題咁難有定奪啦,所以我個人自己有個定義嘅,即係譬如話我自己喺我個blog上面寫粵文嘅時候呢,我就會話:如果係完全符合咗廣東話嘅音嘅話呢,噉我就會當係廣東話嘅一部份,我就會寫囉。噉譬如話lunch啦、譬如話「同朕check下」啦(reference to a widely mocked TVB blunder),噉我就會寫出嚟囉。但係其他我就會盡量避免囉。

靳:同埋有好多以前其實即係冇乜用漢字寫嘅詞呢,都會慢慢用返漢字寫嘅,例如話我哋講緊即係冇咁近期嘅就係「?」噉樣啦,因為佢本身就係冇呢隻字嘅,但係之後呢……「車立」呢隻字本身要分開寫嘅,噉但係呢,畀人加咗入去電腦嘅unicode入面呢,之後呢噉都可以打返出嚟喇喎,噉樣。噉係咪就係代表呢個……呢個詞由一個英文詞變咗做一個寫出嚟嘅詞,所以就唔係……即係中英夾雜,變咗借詞呢?噉樣呢個界線真係好模糊。

苗:喺唔同時期借入嚟嘅英文詞呢,都會有時有啲唔同嘅對應規則啦。譬如一啲比較舊嘅詞就通常嗰啲s尾啊,就會加咗個加咗個韻母畀佢啦,譬如嗰啲巴士啊、士多啊呢一啲,佢加咗個「si2」啊、「si6」,即係佢加咗個i音喺後面。噉呢一個係本身英文冇?嘛。噉但係一啲比較近期嘅字呢,就可以冇呢一啲噉樣嘅加上去嘅元音喎。一個可能……可能係香港嘅人普遍英文程度高咗啦,噉可能多啲人識得讀……即係佢最尾有個s字,或者最頭有個s噉樣。佢哋開始識讀啦。一個例子就係mi1si4同埋miss1,噉如果我話有個mi1si4,噉即係一個女嘅老師啦,如果話我miss咗班車噉樣,就係另一個意思啦。但係你唔可以話我mi1si4班車,或者你唔可以話嗰度有個miss噉樣。噉呢啲係……廣東話係兩個唔同嘅字嚟嘅,但係喺英文呢佢就仍然係同音字。噉所以我就覺得呢一個係另一個好好嘅原因啦,就去……去佐證呢兩個字已經融入咗廣東話,佢係變咗借詞,而唔係單係中英夾雜囉。

以:噉其實呢一啲噉樣嘅借詞或者改變呢一個借詞嘅過程呢,就喺好耐之前已經發生喇。所以可能呢其實呢,有好多廣東話,或者甚至係古漢語裡面嘅外來詞呢,係借咗你都唔知㗎喎。譬如講下蜜糖嗰個蜜字啦。你可能以為佢本身就係一個嚟自中文嘅字啦,但係唔講唔知喎,其實係……個語源呢,就係喺呢一個印歐語系裡面度嚟嘅。噉就係相當於現代英文嘅mead呢一個字嘞,或者北歐裡面嘅mjöd噉樣啦,噉就係一種嚟自蜜糖嘅酒啦。噉呢,好有趣,佢係從呢一個印歐嗰個語源開始啦,就去咗呢一個吐火羅文B,就大概係喺印歐語系最東最東嗰……啄啄嗰個位啦,噉就係相當於係喺中原嘅西邊喇。噉然之後呢,就進入咗呢一個大概古漢語左右嘅時間啦,噉之後後來就創咗呢一個蜜糖「蜜」字畀佢嘞。噉就成為咗我哋語言嘅一部份。

靳:同埋……同埋其實吐火羅文呢,我……即係我哋之後睇返啦,吐火羅文呢,其實除咗呢個蜜字之外呢,都有其他嘅語言呢,借咗返嚟。噉就即係好似有一啲又係我哋唔知係借詞嘅字啦,真係我哋用得好多嘅,例如話獅子個「獅」字啊,噉樣。噉其實都係即係由一啲我哋叫做……即係古代喺中亞嘅語言度借返嚟,噉有好多喺西域啊,或者喺中亞嘅語言,都會有一種共通嘅詞啦。噉當然而家……即係查返返去,其實直接係由邊隻文度借返嚟,其實有時已經無從稽考喇。噉但係我……我哋講緊有好多呢啲詞語,其實都係喺古代入面係一啲借詞嚟嘅,而喺依家就變咗一啲……我哋覺得呢,係咪本身已經……中文已經有嘅詞呢?噉樣。

以:噉同埋有好多都係啲嚟自所謂西域嘅詞語啦,噉因為佢哋係多音節詞啦,噉去到中文裡面呢,就嘗試為佢創一啲新嘅詞語嘅時候呢,就會……首先呢,就會用啲相同部首嘅字啦,同埋其次就會將佢變成一啲……譬如話押韻啊等等,即係兩個字之間有多啲共通點嘅一個雙音節詞啦。譬如話我哋而家講駱駝啦,就係嚟自匈奴嘅dada,或者我哋講琵琶啦,不論係木字邊(枇杷)定係兩個玉字嘅琵琶啦,都係呢啲噉樣嘅來頭嘅。噉我哋就叫做連綿詞啦。噉當然,中文裡面嘅連綿詞呢,就好多種,就唔係一定全部都係借返嚟嘅。噉但係呢,有好多呢啲地方嘅詞語,都會出現咗噉樣嘅現象。

The rest of the transcript is available to Patreon members.